Interview: Daria Challah

Daria Challah is a passionate music enthusiast and influencer, known on social media as Herbert, a new curatorial voice for classical music that aims to inspire younger audiences to listen to classical music. Through short-form social media content, Herbert showcases traditional and contemporary artists in the genre and removes barriers around entry into the genre through authentic and conversational presentation. Herbert also explores the relationship with classical music in the context of other music genres as a way of also highlighting its current cultural relevance.

Having developed global campaigns for both classical and pop artists, Daria recognised the challenges around the discovery and perception of classical music amongst a younger generation and launched Herbert Music in 2023 as a response.

She now has nearly 90,000 followers across Instagram and TikTok.

Hannah Fiddy spoke to Daria about her motivation for starting Herbert, how she defines “classical music”, and her frustrations with the way the classical music industry operates.

You’re an influencer within the classical music industry but it’s always under the name Herbert rather than your own name. Is there a reason for that?

There’s me and then there’s Herbert, which is a world I invented and is part of my mission to build new audiences for classical music. The separation is also important because it allows me to use social media in the way I believe in: to promote ideas, interests and passions versus a persona.

What was the mission behind Herbert, and why did you start it?

The mission was to inspire people to listen to classical music, who may have never felt that classical music was theirs. Classical music was a world that I discovered independently, not in a classroom, not in a venue. It was something I came into contact with in a pure way and something I fell in love with organically, it was somewhere and something that gave me a huge sense of belonging. This feeling of belonging started to fade away when I came into contact with the classical music industry - the way it exists in the world. I want to restore my own feeling of belonging and inspire that feeling in as many people as possible.

I also wanted to provide a platform for emerging classical artists, because there is very little for them in terms of media outlets. If you're a pop artist, you've got the list of online publications, podcasts and video interviews you can do, but with classical that doesn't exist. I've worked with artists for many, many years, and felt that it just wasn't very fair that there was nowhere for them to go.

What’s your motivation for helping out the artists you highlight? Why do you feel drawn to be their advocate?

Because I believe in what they're doing, and because I believe what they're doing is important. I believe that their music deserves to have a place where people can discover it and connect to it. It makes you feel something, it moves you. I find it life-affirming, and I find people that dedicate their lives to expression inspiring, because I would never be able to do it. That level of vulnerability and bravery needs to be celebrated and showcased, particularly in the world like ours today, because it goes against absolutely everything we are being told we should want.

Some parts of the classical music industry can get hung up on what constitutes “classical music”, and dislike the blurring of lines between genres. A lot of the artists you talk about might not be considered very “core” classical. How do you define what makes something “classical” and is that something you even care about?

I hope through my videos, the definition or what it can sound like is unfolding – that’s the journey I’m on. The pieces I talk about are expressions that have relevance in the classical music tradition. It’s a living, breathing artform – so it continues to expand and evolve every day.

Do you think the industry could or should be more open to widening the description of what “classical” can mean?

Yes, absolutely. Strictly speaking, classical music is music written in the Western musical tradition between 1750-1820. No-one in the industry adheres to this in terms of their programming or conversation. Industry gatekeepers create their own version of this to suit their agenda but it’s rarely to do with evolution. In my opinion, tradition must evolve to stay relevant. There are institutions that are helping to evolve this musical tradition in its definition and presentation but they are in the minority.

There can be a sense that there is a “correct” way to listen to classical music – that you have to be fully engaged with it, while sitting in a concert hall, and giving it your undivided attention. Is that something you’re advocating for?

I want people to engage but to feel free to listen to it while they are doing other things. You can appreciate something at many different levels and you don't need to have an existential or profound moment every time you listen to a piece of music. If there was better lighting at concerts, I think people should feel like they could bring a book if they wanted, or fall asleep – as long as you’re respectful to your environment. It’s nuts that you’re told how to be respectful of the environment: “please don't do x, y or z”. I find it patronising.

That's what I sometimes feel when I go to classical music concerts. I feel like I’m in trouble the minute I enter the space – it doesn’t make me want to return to certain venues.

Your presentation of artists is completely different from the approach taken by many classical organisations and sites. Are there things that frustrate you about the way the classical music industry operates?

My big frustration with the industry is the gap between talking about change and doing something about change. I understand that there are many reasons why that happens, including lack of resources, but often it’s fear. To change involves taking risks. There are no guarantees but without risk, there is no innovation.

You've proved there's a lot of appetite out there for discovering new music.

Curated playlists by herbertmusic on Spotify

If I could take one thing away from last year, it's that there is an appetite. I am so grateful for everyone that has come on this journey with me. There are amazing people out there in the world that are hungry for beautiful music and good stories and it’s been my greatest joy interacting with them.

Was there a tipping point in terms of numbers on TikTok and Instagram or have you been steadily building a following over time?

It was one video that changed everything. It was a video I did about French composer and pianist Sofiane Pamart. If there was one artist that I had to do an elevator pitch for on Dragons’ Den, and say to my age group that this is the artist you should listen to and it will change the way you think about classical music, it would be him. That's the video that has almost 2 million views at this point, and it changed everything: it converted 10k followers, and from then it was steady.

French composer and pianist Sofiane Pamart

There aren’t many organisations and ensembles within the classical music industry on TikTok, or embracing these newer channels to the full extent that they could. Do you think more should embrace it?

I do think classical organisations need to have an awareness of what's going on in social media. Because if your objective is to engage with younger audiences, you have to go and meet people where they are.

Do you think classical musicians should be doing that too? I think they can be made to feel that perhaps they shouldn’t be doing that – that they should be in their ivory tower practising.

It depends what kind of career you want to have. I think they should feel that there's a freedom to connect with people in the way they want to connect with people. If they want to go and not have an Instagram and connect with people in person, on stage, good for them. I celebrate that. But if you want to create a community on a larger scale, you have to go through social media.

I think artists in this day and age have to be clear about who they are, and what they want to share, and build a communication plan around that that feels congruent with who they are, and understand what success means to them. And no one is talking to artists like that. I think the real issue is that musicians are not given the confidence and the tools to communicate who they are in the way that feels congruous to them. The failure of the industry is making social media good or bad – it's a tool. There is no right or wrong way to engage with it.

Do you have any tips for musicians looking for success on TikTok?

When I started I didn't really think about building a following, and it’s been a shocking surprise. My tip would be to talk about what you love with sincerity and authenticity.

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